Good as liners only
The fit of the glove is great. They are very wind proof. They do !!!not!!! have any water proofing. I was able to keep my hands warm in -8 Celsius shoveling snow in Toronto. I was not able to keep my hands warm putting on chains in 32 Fahrenheit Big Bear. My hands were dry in Toronto, but wet in big bear. If you are looking for something to keep your hands warm from wind, these are great. If you are looking to keep your hands dry, get something else.