Down right best ever...period. 686 smarty line is one of the best lines out there and they get better every year. I've been wearing some type of 686 gear for about 8 years now from pants to jackets and they've all always been quality and the fact that they've moved away from removable hoods on their jackets, sick. But this is about the pants...buy them no need to ask questions. They fit proper so for all you park rats that like your super mad steeze of bagginess don't buy these pants, they fit too well for you. And if you are part of the SPC (skinny pants crew) you won't like them either. They have enough swagger and bagginess to be comfy, but not so much that they get in the way.